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Sep. 15th, 2002
IM conversation with Elisabeth:
BornAgainSeshat: Elisabeth? It's carla
Pacileo80: hey
BornAgainSeshat: Kirk is dead
Pacileo80: oh my god i just got your email and tried calling you
Pacileo80: i can't belive it
BornAgainSeshat: I'm at work
BornAgainSeshat: I can't believe it either. I;ve been crying all day
Pacileo80: yeah thats what the girl said
Pacileo80: i wish i was there with you
Pacileo80: when did you find out
BornAgainSeshat: So do I. I don't really have anyone to talk to about this. I found out this afternoon. My friend Alan emailed me. I called him immediately and the two of us cried over the phone.
Pacileo80: man i wish i could come give you a big hug....
BornAgainSeshat: And I've been trying to call my mom all day but she hasn't been home.
BornAgainSeshat: It's so weird. i've never had someone this close to me die. I'm feeling numb, shocked, sad, angry, hurt all at the same time
Pacileo80: surprisingly i don't know what to do in these situations either...but i wish i could help in some way....is there anything I can do
Pacileo80: if so please tell me
BornAgainSeshat: Just having you here to listen is good.
Pacileo80: okay
Pacileo80: i can't believe this
Pacileo80: I mean i've witnessed many suicide attempts...none that actually worked
BornAgainSeshat: Me neither. I emailed him yesterday to tell him I'd be coming home for the weekend. I'm only going to be home for one day but I wanted to try and see him if I could. He never wrote back and now I know why. Alan said his stae of mind just deteriorated over the last week. Said he though Kirk might have even been schizophrenic. I'm going to be home for one day and i'm afraid i'm going to miss the funeral. I don't want to miss my boyfriend's funteral.
Pacileo80: when is the funeral...when are you scoming home....i think you should be there for the funeral..
BornAgainSeshat: kirk tried to kill himself so many times, I guess I began to take it for granted that he might succeed.....
Pacileo80: i think its something we all take for granted
BornAgainSeshat: I don't know when the funeral is. Alan didn't know. I'm going to call Kirk's mom and ask. Jews traditionally have to bury the body the day after death, but Kirk dies on Friday so now, wgo knows. Right now he is in the morgue and Alan says they will prolly do an autopsy. That thought trips me out. i can't bear the idea that they are gonna open up my Kirk's body, the same one that held me and cuddled me. I don't want anyone to tear him up. I'm leaving here on Thursday and will arrive Friday afternoon. Sat. I'm going to my sisters wedding, and Sunday I leave again at 4:35 PM
Pacileo80: life is so precious...unfortunately we don't realize it 'till someones gone
Pacileo80: lots of traveling for you
BornAgainSeshat: it's so sad. Kirk was one of the smartest, sweetest people I'd ever met. He could have done so much. None of his problems were unsolvable, Alan and I were going to help him as much as we could. But he just...couldn't beleive in himself the way we did. Alan says he just lost the drive to live. At least now he isn't in pain.
BornAgainSeshat: Yeah lots of travelling for me.
Pacileo80: its so hard to tkink of life being that horrible...even though I definately know it is
Pacileo80: do you think you would come back earlier for the funeral?
BornAgainSeshat: It's just so hard for me to understand why he couldn't concieve of a better way out of his pain. After the last unsuccessful attempt he told me he didn't think he really wanted to die, it's just like when he was in the thick of a depressive episode he couldn't think straight and he would act impulsively. And now he's gone and thrown everything away in one impulsive act.
BornAgainSeshat: I proilly could come back early, but it will still take two days to get to NY, it's not worth it.
Pacileo80: suicide is a strange thing....you never know whwn its going to work or not
BornAgainSeshat: Well, he knew what he did wrong last time. I guess he checked the bag for holes this time around
Pacileo80: i hope there is someone at the school you can talk to about this....your gonna have rough start to thr semester
BornAgainSeshat: Yes. There is a new counselor here. I'm going to arrange to talk to her when i get back next week.
Pacileo80: thats good
Pacileo80: i hope shes good
BornAgainSeshat: Me too. I'm really gonna need her.
Pacileo80: and she got her head screwes on the right way...unlike some others
Pacileo80: you know i didn't even meet kirk and i feel sick about all this now too...i guess those psych people are right suicide touches us all in one way or another
BornAgainSeshat: It's so weird, Alan had a premonition the night Kirk killed himself. he just got this sudden feeling that something terrible had happened. he hopped in a cab and went over to Kirk's place and begged the landlady to open his door to go check on him, but she wouldn't. Tina and i watched Pump Up the Volume the night Kirk killed himself, a movie in which one of the main plot twists is the suicide of one of the characters. Symbolism.
BornAgainSeshat: I hear ya. It just blows your mind that someone can do that to themselves.
Pacileo80: forget symbolism..thats just plain freaky...i guess it all goes along with Friday the 13th superstitions
BornAgainSeshat: Yeah. It was also a Jewish holiday. Since Kirk was Jewish Alan said having him kill homself on that day was like pointing a finger at God and saying "WHY? Why did you give me so much pain?"
Pacileo80: oh shit!
BornAgainSeshat: *nods* yeah
Pacileo80: ~shakes head~ (the way ms sleet would)
BornAgainSeshat: God, I don't even know what to say about this. All I can think is, he's dead, he's dead. "Kirk is Dead." those are the only words I can find that accurately express how i'm feeling and they really don't tell you anything at all.
Pacileo80: that baiscally says it all
Pacileo80: i really wish there was something i could say that would help...but i know there isn't...sorry
BornAgainSeshat: I wish I could have been there. I wish I could have been in the city. i just keep thinking maybe if I'd been there to harrass him and make him come over and hang with me this wouldn't have happened. But I know that isn't true. I mean, he tried to kill himself WHILE I was there this summer......He just couldn't go on. He couldn't care anymore.
BornAgainSeshat: It's okay. I don't expect anyone to say anything to me. Only time can make this better.
BornAgainSeshat: I just need someone to ramble to.
Pacileo80: well ramble away...im all yours:-)thats what firends are for
BornAgainSeshat: Thanks.
Pacileo80: its not your fault
BornAgainSeshat: He didn't reall y have anyone. He didn't speak with his father, his mom is very cold, all he had was me and Alan, and i'm out here in the sticks. Two people aren't enough to live for I guess. I remember him saying how much he cared about me. And I think, well if he cared he wouldn't hav offed himself. But that's not true either. He did care about me. he just cared about himself considerably less.
Pacileo80: its so unfortunate
Pacileo80: i wish everyone could see the potential in themselves
BornAgainSeshat: It's baffling that some people can't.
Pacileo80: why is it that we see the bst in others but they can never see it in themselves
BornAgainSeshat: We are much harsher critics of ourselves then others.
Pacileo80: i mean im sure someone had said that about me already...but its different when you think of someone else
Pacileo80: thats very true...i never thought of it that way
BornAgainSeshat: I know. I know there have been days, weeks, months, when I was certain that i was useless and evil, and everyone would be better off without me. But I was always able to pull myself back and realize how much pain I would cause if I killed myself. Suicide is the most selfish act a person can engage in. The victim only dies once, but the people he leaves behind die a little death everyday he is gone.
Pacileo80: i can definately agree with that...especially after my horrible summer
BornAgainSeshat: nod nod
Pacileo80: i do have to admit suicide has crossed my mind qiute a few times during my lifetime
BornAgainSeshat: If you ever do it I'm not talking to you in the afterlife!
Pacileo80: same goes for you too!
BornAgainSeshat: I just hope Kirk is in a nice place.
Pacileo80: me too...me too
BornAgainSeshat: I wanted to light a candle for him today, but I didn't find out he was dead until after 5, and all the shops around here close at five. So i lit a virtual candle for him online, and said that i hoped he could feel the love he was unable to while he was alive.
Pacileo80: thats sweet..I'll light a candle tomorrow for him at work
Pacileo80: the one benifit of working in a church!
BornAgainSeshat: Oh thank you so much. I'm going to wake up early tomorrow so i can go buy a candle before class.
BornAgainSeshat: I'm sitting here trying to do homeowork. I don't even have that much to do, just a couple of summaries, but i can't concentrate to save my life! (no pun intended)
Pacileo80: wew....that last sentence scared me...i guesss it helps to read to the end of a sentence!
BornAgainSeshat: heh
Pacileo80: i don't even know how you can attempt to do any hw now
BornAgainSeshat: Elisabeth? It's carla
Pacileo80: hey
BornAgainSeshat: Kirk is dead
Pacileo80: oh my god i just got your email and tried calling you
Pacileo80: i can't belive it
BornAgainSeshat: I'm at work
BornAgainSeshat: I can't believe it either. I;ve been crying all day
Pacileo80: yeah thats what the girl said
Pacileo80: i wish i was there with you
Pacileo80: when did you find out
BornAgainSeshat: So do I. I don't really have anyone to talk to about this. I found out this afternoon. My friend Alan emailed me. I called him immediately and the two of us cried over the phone.
Pacileo80: man i wish i could come give you a big hug....
BornAgainSeshat: And I've been trying to call my mom all day but she hasn't been home.
BornAgainSeshat: It's so weird. i've never had someone this close to me die. I'm feeling numb, shocked, sad, angry, hurt all at the same time
Pacileo80: surprisingly i don't know what to do in these situations either...but i wish i could help in some way....is there anything I can do
Pacileo80: if so please tell me
BornAgainSeshat: Just having you here to listen is good.
Pacileo80: okay
Pacileo80: i can't believe this
Pacileo80: I mean i've witnessed many suicide attempts...none that actually worked
BornAgainSeshat: Me neither. I emailed him yesterday to tell him I'd be coming home for the weekend. I'm only going to be home for one day but I wanted to try and see him if I could. He never wrote back and now I know why. Alan said his stae of mind just deteriorated over the last week. Said he though Kirk might have even been schizophrenic. I'm going to be home for one day and i'm afraid i'm going to miss the funeral. I don't want to miss my boyfriend's funteral.
Pacileo80: when is the funeral...when are you scoming home....i think you should be there for the funeral..
BornAgainSeshat: kirk tried to kill himself so many times, I guess I began to take it for granted that he might succeed.....
Pacileo80: i think its something we all take for granted
BornAgainSeshat: I don't know when the funeral is. Alan didn't know. I'm going to call Kirk's mom and ask. Jews traditionally have to bury the body the day after death, but Kirk dies on Friday so now, wgo knows. Right now he is in the morgue and Alan says they will prolly do an autopsy. That thought trips me out. i can't bear the idea that they are gonna open up my Kirk's body, the same one that held me and cuddled me. I don't want anyone to tear him up. I'm leaving here on Thursday and will arrive Friday afternoon. Sat. I'm going to my sisters wedding, and Sunday I leave again at 4:35 PM
Pacileo80: life is so precious...unfortunately we don't realize it 'till someones gone
Pacileo80: lots of traveling for you
BornAgainSeshat: it's so sad. Kirk was one of the smartest, sweetest people I'd ever met. He could have done so much. None of his problems were unsolvable, Alan and I were going to help him as much as we could. But he just...couldn't beleive in himself the way we did. Alan says he just lost the drive to live. At least now he isn't in pain.
BornAgainSeshat: Yeah lots of travelling for me.
Pacileo80: its so hard to tkink of life being that horrible...even though I definately know it is
Pacileo80: do you think you would come back earlier for the funeral?
BornAgainSeshat: It's just so hard for me to understand why he couldn't concieve of a better way out of his pain. After the last unsuccessful attempt he told me he didn't think he really wanted to die, it's just like when he was in the thick of a depressive episode he couldn't think straight and he would act impulsively. And now he's gone and thrown everything away in one impulsive act.
BornAgainSeshat: I proilly could come back early, but it will still take two days to get to NY, it's not worth it.
Pacileo80: suicide is a strange thing....you never know whwn its going to work or not
BornAgainSeshat: Well, he knew what he did wrong last time. I guess he checked the bag for holes this time around
Pacileo80: i hope there is someone at the school you can talk to about this....your gonna have rough start to thr semester
BornAgainSeshat: Yes. There is a new counselor here. I'm going to arrange to talk to her when i get back next week.
Pacileo80: thats good
Pacileo80: i hope shes good
BornAgainSeshat: Me too. I'm really gonna need her.
Pacileo80: and she got her head screwes on the right way...unlike some others
Pacileo80: you know i didn't even meet kirk and i feel sick about all this now too...i guess those psych people are right suicide touches us all in one way or another
BornAgainSeshat: It's so weird, Alan had a premonition the night Kirk killed himself. he just got this sudden feeling that something terrible had happened. he hopped in a cab and went over to Kirk's place and begged the landlady to open his door to go check on him, but she wouldn't. Tina and i watched Pump Up the Volume the night Kirk killed himself, a movie in which one of the main plot twists is the suicide of one of the characters. Symbolism.
BornAgainSeshat: I hear ya. It just blows your mind that someone can do that to themselves.
Pacileo80: forget symbolism..thats just plain freaky...i guess it all goes along with Friday the 13th superstitions
BornAgainSeshat: Yeah. It was also a Jewish holiday. Since Kirk was Jewish Alan said having him kill homself on that day was like pointing a finger at God and saying "WHY? Why did you give me so much pain?"
Pacileo80: oh shit!
BornAgainSeshat: *nods* yeah
Pacileo80: ~shakes head~ (the way ms sleet would)
BornAgainSeshat: God, I don't even know what to say about this. All I can think is, he's dead, he's dead. "Kirk is Dead." those are the only words I can find that accurately express how i'm feeling and they really don't tell you anything at all.
Pacileo80: that baiscally says it all
Pacileo80: i really wish there was something i could say that would help...but i know there isn't...sorry
BornAgainSeshat: I wish I could have been there. I wish I could have been in the city. i just keep thinking maybe if I'd been there to harrass him and make him come over and hang with me this wouldn't have happened. But I know that isn't true. I mean, he tried to kill himself WHILE I was there this summer......He just couldn't go on. He couldn't care anymore.
BornAgainSeshat: It's okay. I don't expect anyone to say anything to me. Only time can make this better.
BornAgainSeshat: I just need someone to ramble to.
Pacileo80: well ramble away...im all yours:-)thats what firends are for
BornAgainSeshat: Thanks.
Pacileo80: its not your fault
BornAgainSeshat: He didn't reall y have anyone. He didn't speak with his father, his mom is very cold, all he had was me and Alan, and i'm out here in the sticks. Two people aren't enough to live for I guess. I remember him saying how much he cared about me. And I think, well if he cared he wouldn't hav offed himself. But that's not true either. He did care about me. he just cared about himself considerably less.
Pacileo80: its so unfortunate
Pacileo80: i wish everyone could see the potential in themselves
BornAgainSeshat: It's baffling that some people can't.
Pacileo80: why is it that we see the bst in others but they can never see it in themselves
BornAgainSeshat: We are much harsher critics of ourselves then others.
Pacileo80: i mean im sure someone had said that about me already...but its different when you think of someone else
Pacileo80: thats very true...i never thought of it that way
BornAgainSeshat: I know. I know there have been days, weeks, months, when I was certain that i was useless and evil, and everyone would be better off without me. But I was always able to pull myself back and realize how much pain I would cause if I killed myself. Suicide is the most selfish act a person can engage in. The victim only dies once, but the people he leaves behind die a little death everyday he is gone.
Pacileo80: i can definately agree with that...especially after my horrible summer
BornAgainSeshat: nod nod
Pacileo80: i do have to admit suicide has crossed my mind qiute a few times during my lifetime
BornAgainSeshat: If you ever do it I'm not talking to you in the afterlife!
Pacileo80: same goes for you too!
BornAgainSeshat: I just hope Kirk is in a nice place.
Pacileo80: me too...me too
BornAgainSeshat: I wanted to light a candle for him today, but I didn't find out he was dead until after 5, and all the shops around here close at five. So i lit a virtual candle for him online, and said that i hoped he could feel the love he was unable to while he was alive.
Pacileo80: thats sweet..I'll light a candle tomorrow for him at work
Pacileo80: the one benifit of working in a church!
BornAgainSeshat: Oh thank you so much. I'm going to wake up early tomorrow so i can go buy a candle before class.
BornAgainSeshat: I'm sitting here trying to do homeowork. I don't even have that much to do, just a couple of summaries, but i can't concentrate to save my life! (no pun intended)
Pacileo80: wew....that last sentence scared me...i guesss it helps to read to the end of a sentence!
BornAgainSeshat: heh
Pacileo80: i don't even know how you can attempt to do any hw now